Dually axle info needed

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wayno
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Dually axle info needed

Postby wayno » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:08 am

I have this type of nissan dually axle in my 1971 521 work truck, it's a 1985/86 C200 type I believe.
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From the top.
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Looking in the back.
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This is what has happened, it has ovaled the shaft hole in the carrier case.
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This is what it looks like apart.
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The shaft was broken, I had no idea, as it drove down the road just fine, no noise or anything like that, all it did was clang like a bell under certain circumstances.
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This is what the carrier case looks like.
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So..........What I need to know is.............Does anyone know if the late 1886 4X4 rear axle that looks just like this axle(C200), except it's not a dually have the same carrier housing in it, and can I use one of them carrier housing in my dually axle housing?
Does anyone know where I can search to find out, I tried searching it, but get mostly other brands in the search, and nothing on parts or numbers for one?
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Re: Dually axle info needed

Postby wayno » Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:43 pm

I went to Nissan Saturday, all they could tell me was that Nissan made a dually rearend, that was about it, so I stopped by Baxters, and they were able to tell me that the C200 dually and the C200 non-dually rearends used the same carrier side bearings, so I will try to find a good one in the wrecking yards and pull the part I need out of that type rearend.
It kinda sucks, as my dually axle is easy to pull apart, I can get the carrier out in less than 10 minutes with my impact, while it will likely take me an hour to get it out of the 1986 720 4X4 axle housing.
All this just to find out if it will actually fit. :|
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Re: Dually axle info needed

Postby datsunmike » Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:18 pm

Wayno I would say yes. The HD 2wd Z24 and the 4x4 Z24 from Nov. '82 on, used the same side bearing numbers. 38440-N3100. All 4x4s (after mid '82) used the C200 so the HD 2wd (heavy duty?) must be the Cab Chassis option.... also a C200.
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Re: Dually axle info needed

Postby wayno » Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:32 pm

datsunmike wrote:Wayno I would say yes. The HD 2wd Z24 and the 4x4 Z24 from Nov. '82 on, used the same side bearing numbers. 38440-N3100. All 4x4s (after mid '82) used the C200 so the HD 2wd (heavy duty?) must be the Cab Chassis option.... also a C200.



I only wonder about one thing, when I was at Nissan several years ago I was asking for better gearing than the 437s that were in it, the guy at the counter told me that the best hiway gearing I could get for it was 411s, while I am pretty sure that normal C200 axles have better gearing for the hiway than that, so I will find one at the wrecking yard and pull it to see if it will work, if not, I guess I will have to find a new shaft to hold the spider gears in position, then weld the shaft to the carrier case.
I am a little worried that the carrier is different, even though it will fit in the same axle housing.
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Re: Dually axle info needed

Postby RedBanner » Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:44 pm

If its different, but fits, and the axle fits. Then its no big deal right? I suspect the spline would be different for the axles if anything. But im wrong alot.
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Re: Dually axle info needed

Postby datsunmike » Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:48 pm

4X4 720s with Z24 motors, pretty much '83 and up were C-200 with 4.11 ratio
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Re: Dually axle info needed

Postby wayno » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:16 pm

datsunmike wrote:4X4 720s with Z24 motors, pretty much '83 and up were C-200 with 4.11 ratio



So your saying that the C200 did not come with 390s or 370s?
If that is true, then it would make sense, because as I said on one of these threads I started, the Nissan dealer told me the best ratio I could get for it was 411, I wonder if I could just buy the 411 carrier/ring and pinion, and put it in my dually housing, I think I should just get one going with the 437 gears before I start making plans to make up a 411 gearset. :|
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Re: Dually axle info needed

Postby datsunmike » Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:05 pm

In the 720 the Cab/Chassis option was C-200 and 4.375. Later 4x4s were C-200 and 4.11

The D-21s had the same ratios.
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Re: Dually axle info needed

Postby wayno » Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:25 pm

datsunmike wrote:In the 720 the Cab/Chassis option was C-200 and 4.375. Later 4x4s were C-200 and 4.11

The D-21s had the same ratios.


I actually have a dually axle with 450 something gears, it came from a motorhome, I actually bought it for the parts, but I am reluctant to tear it down for the carrier at this time, but I am going to have to do something soon, as the work truck is clanging louder and louder every week/month, I could barely hear it a few months ago, now it is obvious.
I thought that the C200 came in the last couple years on the 4X4s on the 720, I did not realize that it was as early as 83, so I have been checking the inventory, and they have all been 84 or earlier, so I have not even been going to look. :|
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Re: Dually axle info needed

Postby wayno » Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:08 pm

OK guys, I am looking for an opinion, I found a carrier for this dually rearend in a 4X4 720 with an C200 differential, but I noticed a difference, and I am wondering if this might be why I am wearing out/breaking my dually rearends, if you look close in the dually rearend photo below, you will see no block on the shaft going across, this shaft is what is breaking on my rearends.
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In the next photo you see the shaft that breaks, and next to it is a block that is in the 4X4 rearends that the shaft goes threw, the issue I have is that the nub on that block is exactly how much my dually axle is being heald out from its mount surface, if I cut the nub off and put it in my dually rearend, will my shafts quit breaking, or should I leave it out and fix it again 5 to 7 years from now again.
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These axles are full floating axles, they don't have shims to adjust them.
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Re: Dually axle info needed

Postby izzo » Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:24 pm

in that top pic, it almost looks like the nub would fit in the round deal to the left of the shaft. Like the nub fits in there and keeps it from sliding around. is that the case? Could you just run it on a lathe and make it smaller if need be to fit in there? Or is there no hole there and just looks like it. If you can't figure my head out (i can't sometimes) then I can edit the picture and show you what i mean.

Maybe that piece will keep the shaft from flopping around, it's like a little stabilizer. But, that's an uneducated guess. I have 0 knowledge about rear ends.
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Re: Dually axle info needed

Postby wayno » Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:35 pm

izzo wrote:in that top pic, it almost looks like the nub would fit in the round deal to the left of the shaft. Like the nub fits in there and keeps it from sliding around. is that the case? Could you just run it on a lathe and make it smaller if need be to fit in there? Or is there no hole there and just looks like it. If you can't figure my head out (i can't sometimes) then I can edit the picture and show you what i mean.

Maybe that piece will keep the shaft from flopping around, it's like a little stabilizer. But, that's an uneducated guess. I have 0 knowledge about rear ends.



That nub is holding my driverside axle out that far, it will have to be cut off to let the axle mate to the surface it's supposed to mate to, stock has no block in the middle as you can see in the first photo, I am thinking the block will stop the breaking issue, I don't know, if I leave the block out like stock, I will get about 5 years out of it before another repair.
I seriously thought about cutting the axle off that much, it would be easier to do, and that nub would sit in the hole as you mentioned above.
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Re: Dually axle info needed

Postby izzo » Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:49 pm

Are those little blocks common? I guess it may be hard, but are the dually axles and standard axles the same length? I wonder if the axle is shorter stock in pumpkins that come stock with that little block.

With that block in there and attached, and the nub in the hole. it would help support the shaft and keep it from wearing on the ends as much, I would think anyways.
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Re: Dually axle info needed

Postby wayno » Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:01 pm

izzo wrote:Are those little blocks common? I guess it may be hard, but are the dually axles and standard axles the same length? I wonder if the axle is shorter stock in pumpkins that come stock with that little block.

With that block in there and attached, and the nub in the hole. it would help support the shaft and keep it from wearing on the ends as much, I would think anyways.



Every Nissan rearend I have ever seen has had them blocks except these Nissan dually rearends, they are different, but the same, i have went back to sanding on the 520 between reading replies, I am tempted to just cut the nub off on the block.
The difference between a normal rearend that we are used to, and the dually rearend is that the axles bolt in on the end of the axle instead of 4 bolts on the back of the drum brake housing, just the axle comes out on the dually rearend..
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Re: Dually axle info needed

Postby izzo » Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:11 pm

Neat :D Lol, sorry I don't have any real knowledge for you. I guess if the little blocks are that common, you could cut the nub off. I figured cutting the nub off would allow the block to slide around and then not really become a support, but become just that, a sliding block on your shaft (lol)
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Re: Dually axle info needed

Postby wayno » Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:47 pm

izzo wrote:Neat :D Lol, sorry I don't have any real knowledge for you. I guess if the little blocks are that common, you could cut the nub off. I figured cutting the nub off would allow the block to slide around and then not really become a support, but become just that, a sliding block on your shaft (lol)


That is the only one I ever seen with a nub, not sure what its about, likely has something to do with the offset of the pinion on the C200 rearend in the 4X4 720s.
I cut the nub off a little while ago, smoothed it out, and put the rearend together with the block inside it, I guess I will see if that helps or hurts when I switch out the rearends in the work truck, the pinion is real tight on this rearend, so I hated the idea of trashing it.
I hope this works, this rearend has been sitting for several years now, one drum don't want to turn, might have to pull it apart and check the brakes.
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Re: Dually axle info needed

Postby DRIVEN » Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:43 pm

Looking at the pics of broken parts, I'd say that the damage is due to good, old fashioned heavy use. That block shouldn't hurt anything but I'm not convinced that it will help anything either. It looks like all the cross pin wear is in the area of the spider gears and the carrier itself. I doubt you're doing any one wheel burnouts so I can only suspect that it's a result of heavy loads + torque. About all you can do is keep good gear oil in it and cross your fingers. Or upgrade to something bigger.
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Re: Dually axle info needed

Postby wayno » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:32 pm

DRIVEN wrote:Looking at the pics of broken parts, I'd say that the damage is due to good, old fashioned heavy use. That block shouldn't hurt anything but I'm not convinced that it will help anything either. It looks like all the cross pin wear is in the area of the spider gears and the carrier itself. I doubt you're doing any one wheel burnouts so I can only suspect that it's a result of heavy loads + torque. About all you can do is keep good gear oil in it and cross your fingers. Or upgrade to something bigger.



I understand what your saying, yes I put this drivetrain threw hell on a regular basis, I haul way more weight than the axle is rated for, I haul a trailer around 90 percent of the time with two complete pressure washing systems.
The shaft breaks at the side spider gear crown, not where it touches the case, so I am hoping that the block will keep the whole shaft from flexing till it breaks, like a sleeve, the block does move up ans down the shaft less than an eighth inch, and the axles are about a 1/16th inch away from the block, so the block is loose in there, so I am actually not to worried about it causing an issue, but I did not design this assembly, there likely is a reason it is not in there, or maybe they didn't think that it would ever be an issue in these vehicles, as they did not have me in mind when they sold them.
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Re: Dually axle info needed

Postby DRIVEN » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:38 pm

wayno wrote:or maybe they didn't think that it would ever be an issue in these vehicles, as they did not have me in mind when they sold them.

:rofl:

I figured that's why you were adding the sleeve. I was thinking the same thing but thought it might put all the stress in one point. Who knows? Probably can't hurt to give it a try. Are new cross pins available? If so, maybe it'd be a good idea to just replace it every year or two if it starts to show any wear marks on it. Either way, good luck with it.
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Re: Dually axle info needed

Postby wayno » Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:00 pm

DRIVEN wrote:
wayno wrote:or maybe they didn't think that it would ever be an issue in these vehicles, as they did not have me in mind when they sold them.

:rofl:

I figured that's why you were adding the sleeve. I was thinking the same thing but thought it might put all the stress in one point. Who knows? Probably can't hurt to give it a try. Are new cross pins available? If so, maybe it'd be a good idea to just replace it every year or two if it starts to show any wear marks on it. Either way, good luck with it.



I don't actually know if cross pins are available, I did not even know if this part was going to work, I was just hoping, now that I know this will likely be a parts source, I will look into that.
The pin is super tight on this carrier, so I will just try this mod out and see if it works, if it does, then I will start thinking about ways to make it last longer with new parts.
The sad thing was that just the carrier without ring gear was over $90.00, I also bought what I believe is a H190 LSD for a $100.00, so it was an expensive part considering it was just the carrier, but I think that the guy at the counter goofed, he did not charge me for the windshield, so that makes up for that particular expensive part.
Replacing that part every couple years is a possibility, it's a lot easier than an H190, I don't even have to get under the vehicle to remove an axle on this rearend.
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