LZ23 engine build

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wayno
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LZ23 engine build

Postby wayno » Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:45 pm

So I had another Z22 block built, but I might have screwed up.
The first one I had built was made out of a late Z22E with EFI block from a car, and it turned out great, everything looked normal when I put it together.
Today I went and picked up the second one that I am in the process of building and the pistons on this one don't come all the way up to the deck of the block like the first one I had built did, they come up about 3mm short, I am a little worried now about my compression ratio.
So I started looking into why the two block builds would be different and I went to the Jason Grey info on Ratsun and found this below, what may have happened is that the first block I built was a late Z22E with the 149.5mm rods, and this block was a Z22S with the 145.9mm rods, so this seems to me to be a problem, or my first block I built doesn't have 8.9 to 1 CR I thought it had, it is likely higher, maybe a lot higher.

Connecting rods
Center to center length, all use the same 21mm diameter piston wristpin.
L18, L28, L26--------------130.2mm
L16, L24---------------------133.0mm
L13----------------------------139.9mm
L20B, Z22S, early Z22E-145.9mm*
Z20S,- ------------------------??**
Late Z22E-------------------149.5m*
Z20E--------------------------152.5mm
Z24, KA24-------------------165.0mm

Does anyone know what the compression ratio will be on this block with a closed chamber head?
Image

Image

EDIT

So I figured this out, all is good!!!
Last edited by wayno on Fri Aug 26, 2016 5:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: LZ23 engine build question/issue?

Postby DRIVEN » Wed Aug 24, 2016 4:52 pm

Better strap a turbo to that to make up the deficit.













Sorry, I have no actual useful answer to your question.
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Re: LZ23 engine build question/issue?

Postby wayno » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:19 pm

DRIVEN wrote:Better strap a turbo to that to make up the deficit.


Sorry, I have no actual useful answer to your question.


Turbos are a pain.
I am thinking that I am going to have to source a set of the longer rods unless my CR is 8.9 this way with the closed chamber head.
This was not the plan, I don't recall the last engine being like this, seemed like the pistons were level with the deck.
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Re: LZ23 engine build question/issue?

Postby Laecaon » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:42 pm

So something odd happened. And now that its assembled you cant measure it.

If you used a Z22 crank and early Z22E rods/pistons you would have a flush deck (.05mm below). If you used late Z22E rods/pistons you would have a flush deck again (.015mm above).

Somehow you mixed and matched.
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Re: LZ23 engine build question/issue?

Postby wayno » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:58 pm

Laecaon wrote:So something odd happened. And now that its assembled you cant measure it.

If you used a Z22 crank and early Z22E rods/pistons you would have a flush deck (.05mm below). If you used late Z22E rods/pistons you would have a flush deck again (.015mm above).

Somehow you mixed and matched.


I did the same thing I did on the last one I built, but this one is a Z22S block, when the first one I built was with a Z22E block, they both have Z24 pistons in them.
It has to be the rods, the first block must have had the longer rods, this block didn't.
I need someone to tell me what the CR is on this with a closed chamber head, I don't know how to figure it out.

I have a Z20 in the shed with the long rods, I wonder if them rods will work?
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Re: LZ23 engine build question/issue?

Postby Laecaon » Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:58 pm

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Re: LZ23 engine build question/issue?

Postby wayno » Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:35 pm

Laecaon wrote:http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/enginedesign/


That site will not let me put in what I have done to the block, it's been bored out to use 89mm standard Z24 pistons, it keeps changing my info back to the Z22 block/piston specifications, a warning keeps popping up saying that the block is not compatible with that piston even though I type in what I have installed in the block.
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Re: LZ23 engine build question/issue?

Postby DRIVEN » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:47 am

Could always buy a burette and do it the old fashioned way.
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Re: LZ23 engine build question/issue?

Postby Laecaon » Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:47 am

You aren't using it correctly. Make the block bore 89, don't use the overbore. Hg height of 1.2 use the v91 head.
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Re: LZ23 engine build question/issue?

Postby wayno » Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:30 pm

Laecaon wrote:You aren't using it correctly. Make the block bore 89, don't use the overbore. Hg height of 1.2 use the v91 head.


I tried it a lot of different ways, in the end it would not except a Z24 piston in a Z22 block.
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Re: LZ23 engine build question/issue?

Postby wayno » Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:35 pm

I have no idea how this happened as I usually double check everything, I thought that I had the crank in the proper position but I guess I didn't, I actually pulled one of the pistons/rods to get the casting number off of it, I looked down at the other piston a little later and it looked correct, this baffled me, I looked at the crank again, it looked correct like when I looked at it earlier, but it must not have been correct because now it looks like it should.
Image

Image

Image
I screwed this up somehow, not a mistake I make very often, especially when the piston was so far down in the cylinder, that was the first thing I looked at, well this block is ready to go.
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Re: LZ23 engine build question/issue?

Postby Laecaon » Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:18 pm

It worked first try for me...


Image
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Re: LZ23 engine build question/issue?

Postby wayno » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:42 pm

OK Jacob, I didn't put the bore down as 89mm in the block box, it was at 87 like it came stock, when I changed that like you did it gave it to me.
It kept saying the piston was not compatible because of that one number, I just kept putting what the block was, I didn't change the bore size, I learned something today, thankyou. :thumbs:
I copied everything you did and couldn't get it to work, then I started checking every number against yours, that is when I figured out what I was doing wrong, that is a great resource, thankyou for posting the link to it!!! :thumbs:
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Re: LZ23 engine build question/issue?

Postby wayno » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:49 pm

Now I need to buy a head stud kit, should have bought that weeks ago. :lol:

EDIT

ARP 202-4201 Head kit on it's way, well it will be when they tell me it is shipped. :lol:
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Re: LZ23 engine build

Postby wayno » Fri Aug 26, 2016 5:40 pm

ARP head stud kit due to arrive next Friday, all is good. :)
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Re: LZ23 engine build

Postby wayno » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:56 pm

I am going to talk about the engine build here from now on.
I have the timing chain kit and the full gasket set, I am picking up a Z24 head gasket later today.
I drilled the water coolant passages in the block this afternoon, and I painted the block the same color it was, didn't use special paint, so it likely will peel off or flake, but it will be dirty by then. :lol:
Image

Image

Image

I will put the head on first, then the timing chain kit and timing chain cover, then the oil pan/pick up tube, last will be the distributor and oil pump.
Need to buy an oil pump, I have forgotten what the best one is, for the hardbody I believe, it's high volume as I recall.
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Re: LZ23 engine build

Postby wayno » Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:03 pm

I forgot, I deleted the Z24 oil dipstick on the driverside, I cut it, flattened it, folded it over and flattened it again, I am hoping it doesn't leak.

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Re: LZ23 engine build

Postby wayno » Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:45 pm

I am curious why the head is not drilled in the 4 places that have circles, the gaskets have holes there.
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Re: LZ23 engine build

Postby flatcat19 » Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:04 pm

Your gasket is for a Z motor, not L head.
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Re: LZ23 engine build

Postby wayno » Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:28 pm

flatcat19 wrote:Your gasket is for a Z motor, not L head.


I made them marks using the L block head gasket.
I went and looked at the other 2 heads I have(W53 and 219) and neither of them have them holes drilled either, I am wondering if the U67 head has them holes drilled, because that head doesn't have the holes for the intake manifold as it has the intake bolted to the exhaust manifold, I don't have a U67 here to look at.
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