240SX Brakes on 510 Wagon

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Laecaon
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240SX Brakes on 510 Wagon

Postby Laecaon » Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:16 pm

This is going to be my thread for figuring out how to adapt 240SX calipers to a 510 wagon. At minimum I am going for rear discs with functioning E-Brake.


Some things to know:

280ZX and 240SX front calipers are nearly identical. Rotor is of similar size in both thickness and diameter, pad size is similar, both single piston. I will say I think the piston on the SX caliper is larger...

For the rear, I never actually compared the brakes of the ZX to SX. Ill assume they are similar, but of course the SX is newer. Considering how similar the front brakes really are, I think the SX rears would work well with either ZX or SX front calipers.


Other reasons why:
Have you looked for 510 wagon rear drum hardware? I cant find any. Have you ever looked for 510 front rotors? dont exist. The 510 is starting to go through its parts stash and staying original will be a bit difficult.

On top of that, last time I looked for 280ZX brakes and things, I noticed the vendor list is not quite what it used to be. It would seem foolish to me to make change to a different system that will be legacy soon.

240SX I believe is here to stay for a while yet. They are everywhere on CL, parts are available, ranging from simple OEM replacement to performance upgrades from the brands we all know and some we dont.


This thread will start its focus on the rear, it also just so happens to be that the rear of my wagon is in the air right now.

Eventually, for continuity, Ill look at what it takes to run the 240SX caliper on ZX struts. But really its fruitless, and I only want to do it to know I have 240SX brakes on all 4 corners...

I picked up some calipers (phone doesnt want to start camera), but sadly they didnt come with the caliper brackets (but they sell those from the parts store too). Ill have the right rear bracket on Wednesday, so Ill start there.
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Re: 240SX Brakes on 510 Wagon

Postby MicroMachinery » Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:35 pm

Laecaon » Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:16 pm wrote:Have you looked for 510 wagon rear drum hardware? I cant find any.




(Use 240z hardware :thumbs: ... Shhhhh)
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Re: 240SX Brakes on 510 Wagon

Postby Laecaon » Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:59 am

MicroMachinery » Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:35 pm wrote:
Laecaon » Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:16 pm wrote:Have you looked for 510 wagon rear drum hardware? I cant find any.




(Use 240z hardware :thumbs: ... Shhhhh)



I dont know why I never thought of that... but my rear shoes are still fine... Probably still available because the wheel cylinders are so hard to get for 240zs...
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Re: 240SX Brakes on 510 Wagon

Postby Laecaon » Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:04 am

Ok, got enough parts to start mocking up the rear end. I like where this is going. The 240SX caliper has a fairly large offset compared to calipers like the 280ZX one, but Ill digress because I want 240SX calipers, and I like continuity.

In the pictures below, it is 240SX rear caliper, pads, and rotor. The hub on the rotor is a perfect fit on the axle.

E-Brake is going to be super simple to adapt. Caliper is on the rear side of the rotor because that is the side with the e-brake linkage.

Now I have to think how I want to make the bracket. I almost want to make it 2 pieces, a piece that simply takes place of the drum backing plate and retains the bearing/holds axle in, and a piece that bolts to the inside of the ears that will actually hold the bracket. Other wise its 1 piece, with about a 1" mounting difference between axle flange and caliper mounts.


The only real problem I can think of currently is that the 510 auto vs manual wagons have different bolt spacings at the ends of the axle supposedly...

Image

Image
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Re: 240SX Brakes on 510 Wagon

Postby DRIVEN » Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:24 am

Laecaon » Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:04 am wrote:The only real problem I can think of currently is that the 510 auto vs manual wagons have different bolt spacings at the ends of the axle supposedly...

Never heard that before. Yours was originally an auto, right? Mine has always been a stick and I have a spare rearend I got from Greasemonky a few years ago. LMK if you need measurements or want to come by and measure them yourself.
When the only tool you have is a hammer every problem starts to look like a hippy.
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Re: 240SX Brakes on 510 Wagon

Postby Laecaon » Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:21 pm

DRIVEN » Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:24 am wrote:
Laecaon » Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:04 am wrote:The only real problem I can think of currently is that the 510 auto vs manual wagons have different bolt spacings at the ends of the axle supposedly...

Never heard that before. Yours was originally an auto, right? Mine has always been a stick and I have a spare rearend I got from Greasemonky a few years ago. LMK if you need measurements or want to come by and measure them yourself.


Yes mine was an auto, as well as Derek's.

I have only heard this come up when talking about doing the S110 rear brakes, as a couple of years of the S110 had a H190 with rear discs. The brake adapters supposedly fit manual axles, and not auto axles.

I really can'no fathom an idea of why Nissan thought it would be necessary to make them different..

I will probably make a prototype and then I might want to see the spare axle.
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Re: 240SX Brakes on 510 Wagon

Postby Laecaon » Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:05 pm

Ok thought about it more today.

First off, I decided I messed up by cutting off my backing plate, oh well.

Next, I think I want to make the bracket bolt on from the rear. Why? Easy of making the part, and what I would say, less stress on the bracket itself.

In the overhead picture above, youll notice the ears on the axle are nearly on the same plane as the mounting surface of calipers (the ebrake wasnt set in that picture, and things are a little better looking now.

The other problem is, no cutting the backing plates off. They hold the bearings in, and are specially placed to keep things aligned. Oops. I would just cut around the axle flange, keeping the center of the backing plate only. Depending on tools, this could almost be done without pulling the axle... The other problem with this, unlike what I take from the trucks, the backing plate is also the dust shield for the bearings, so either I could make a bracket where you have to remove the bearing and install a new one, or just avoid it entirely. Looks like I have to make something custom for my car, and yank the bearings off.
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Re: 240SX Brakes on 510 Wagon

Postby Laecaon » Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:45 am

Well I think Ill try and get dimensions finalized this week, and make a prototype. I really want to be able to mount to the rear of the axle flange, but that may not be the best idea, because again, unlike the trucks, the wagons have machined/cast flanges, and trucks have plates.

If I can get it to work easily enough, the mounting height difference of the axle to caliper is pretty much only a 1/16th off. Should be pretty easy to make really.
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Re: 240SX Brakes on 510 Wagon

Postby Taterhead » Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:53 am

I'm looking forward to seeing how this turns out. With the wagon being a solid axle and the 2 door being IRS do you know if it's any different between the 2 as far as the brakes are concerned? I had a wagon for parts at one time but never got that deep into it. This is something I would love to do to my shitcan one day.
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Re: 240SX Brakes on 510 Wagon

Postby Laecaon » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:24 pm

What I know is, there are multiple brackets available for the sedans, and they do not work on the wagons. When ever someone makes something, its safe to assume it doesnt fit a wagon unless they say so.
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Re: 240SX Brakes on 510 Wagon

Postby Laecaon » Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:17 am

Some progress... Prototype of the adapters is nearly a perfect fit!

Took a piece of 1/4" aluminum, and put a few holes through it. Slotted the caliper mount holes for a bit of adjustment. And after bolting it together I learned a few things.

But on with pictures!

Prototype adapter bolted on (from the backside)
Image

Image

Axle shaft and rotor in place
Image

Caliper Bracket on
Image

Ok clearance is tight (it clears though), so now I know I need to adjust this more
Image

Image

Pads on
Image

Caliper on
Image



So clearly the Caliper adapter needs to be centered on the rotor better. Besides that, I need figure out how to better fit the axle as in where the adapter sits on the axle housing; the axle housing is not one diameter. But all in all Im super happy. Now to figure out if I should make it out of aluminum or steel...

P.S. That may or may not be the final position of the caliper, as in clocking.
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Re: 240SX Brakes on 510 Wagon

Postby Laecaon » Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:12 pm

Talked with a friend, going with aluminum. I also looked at all of ArizonaZCars offerings, everything is aluminum.

Next up, because I'm me, design is always a part of things. I could make it so the same adapter works for both left and right sides, but that just irks me as then its not perfectly symmetrical. So I am planning on left and right being different, and this will allow me to clock the caliper to any position I want.

I need to see what type of hookups I get for anodizing too.... Of course I could get this powder coated for free... in 1 color... light light grey... But I dont like powder coat, not when people are likely to use brake clean (the stuff eats powder coat).
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Re: 240SX Brakes on 510 Wagon

Postby devilsbullet » Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:47 pm

I work in an Ano shop... What color do you want it to be?
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Re: 240SX Brakes on 510 Wagon

Postby devilsbullet » Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:50 pm

Can't get you a hookup on a full production run, but I can slip your first set in easily enough. Or I could nickel plate it.

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