Lifting Front End, Trying to Determine what I can do with These Struts/Inserts

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noflers
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Lifting Front End, Trying to Determine what I can do with These Struts/Inserts

Postby noflers » Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:47 pm

I've got these struts with the Illumina 5-way adjustable inserts inside. I'm not sure what what the struts are out of as nothing really comes up when I search for the numbers on the strut tube.

Currently, the rear suspension has 6.5" ground clearance, and the front has 4.25" ground clearance (measuring to the suspension crossmembers). I want the front to be lifted to about even with the rear, maybe half an inch lower.

Does anyone have the stock front spring dimensions? I'd like to compare and see what kind of lift the springs I have might provide.

Insert Info:
BZ3038 gas cartridge illumina adjustable-5 Tokico

Strut Tube Info:
54302 A3050 kyb

Coil Spring Info (Small Blue):
OD= 9cm
ID= 6.75cm
Length= 22cm

Coil Spring Info (Big Blue):
OD= 13cm
ID= 11.5cm
Length= 32cm

I'm not sure what exactly the front suspension consists of right now, but if I had to guess I'd say stock struts with cut springs. Also, there's a nice hack job of the strut mounts.


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DRIVEN
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Re: Lifting Front End, Trying to Determine what I can do with These Struts/Inserts

Postby DRIVEN » Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:55 pm

That is some unfortunate hackery. Unless you have, and are handy with a welder, you might be stuck with what you have. I actually think the current ride height looks good. I think if you bring the front up another 2" it's gonna look weird.
Sorry, I can't help you with the info you're looking for. The red struts look like stock 510 units to me with lower spring seats welded in place. Probably the only way to find out how they sit is to install them and take it for a drive.
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Re: Lifting Front End, Trying to Determine what I can do with These Struts/Inserts

Postby Indy510 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:30 pm

It looks like you could bolt on some DP racing camber/caster plates .... but you'd need coilovers and $275 for the camber/caster plates:

Sometimes people cut the top hole almost as big as yours for these:

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Re: Lifting Front End, Trying to Determine what I can do with These Struts/Inserts

Postby Laecaon » Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:02 pm

Or run the Universal Ebay camber plates. You shape/drill the holes in them...

Your strut tops are kinda f'ed. Kinda have to run coilovers, at which point you can run any spring you want. With illuminas you can run just about any spring you want to. I bought 250lb springs for the front of my car and while I havent driven the car with them, Im thinking I want 175lb springs.
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Re: Lifting Front End, Trying to Determine what I can do with These Struts/Inserts

Postby noflers » Sat Aug 13, 2016 6:07 am

Laecaon wrote:Or run the Universal Ebay camber plates. You shape/drill the holes in them...

Your strut tops are kinda f'ed. Kinda have to run coilovers, at which point you can run any spring you want. With illuminas you can run just about any spring you want to. I bought 250lb springs for the front of my car and while I havent driven the car with them, Im thinking I want 175lb springs.


Well to be honest, I have zero experience with coilovers so I am lost on at the moment. Do the springs I have set on the shocks look too short? A spring perch has already been added so I'd like to keep that, would I just need an adjustable threaded collar and top hats to make this set up work? My bicep dyno says the rear end has good dampening properties, spring rate, etc :) So I'd like to match that closely if possible.

Does anyone know what the stock front spring length is? For the '70 510 that is...
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Re: Lifting Front End, Trying to Determine what I can do with These Struts/Inserts

Postby DRIVEN » Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:08 am

Spring length essentially means nothing without knowing the rate.
Are you wanting to change the front suspension because of ride quality or just ride height? If height is the only concern you could just put a spacer under the spring in the struts you're running. Otherwise I'd suggest some cheap coilover sleeves and springs in the 175-250# range and swap your strut tops onto the red set and see what it's like. Probably safe to assume you'll be buying a second set of springs if it feels too stiff or soft and you need to adjust the rate. There's probably going to be some trial and error when dealing with mystery parts.

Also keep in mind that you may run into travel issues if you are going low. My personal combination is stock strut tubes that were shortened about 1.5-2", MR2 cartridges, clipped stock springs, stock strut tops.

The good news is that it's a 510. There's about a million different documented combinations so it's just a matter of researching.
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Re: Lifting Front End, Trying to Determine what I can do with These Struts/Inserts

Postby noflers » Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:53 am

Definitely not wanting to go lower, probably wanting to come up about an inch. The current springs are a little stiff for me.

The problem with putting my strut tops on is that they are for the full size spring, won't I need a much smaller top hat? I could always cut the spring perch off and use that so I can use the stock cut spring.
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Re: Lifting Front End, Trying to Determine what I can do with These Struts/Inserts

Postby DRIVEN » Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:07 am

Could you just put the Illuminas in your current struts?
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Re: Lifting Front End, Trying to Determine what I can do with These Struts/Inserts

Postby noflers » Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:33 am

DRIVEN wrote:Could you just put the Illuminas in your current struts?


Probably, but how involved is that? Will the struts be useable if I don't like them?
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Re: Lifting Front End, Trying to Determine what I can do with These Struts/Inserts

Postby noflers » Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:41 am

DRIVEN wrote:Could you just put the Illuminas in your current struts?


Probably, but how involved is that? Will the struts be useable if I don't like them?
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Re: Lifting Front End, Trying to Determine what I can do with These Struts/Inserts

Postby Laecaon » Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:05 am

Are you going to be at blue lake? Probably easier to go over it in person with examples around to show.
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Re: Lifting Front End, Trying to Determine what I can do with These Struts/Inserts

Postby DRIVEN » Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:42 pm

That's a great suggestion. The guys from up north usually bring a bunch of stuff to sell. Might have just the parts you need.
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Re: Lifting Front End, Trying to Determine what I can do with These Struts/Inserts

Postby noflers » Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:01 am

I planned on going to the meet, but ran into some scrap electrical issues last night and now I'm afraid to drive the 510 top much.

Can anyone recommend a good place to get some top hats?
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Re: Lifting Front End, Trying to Determine what I can do with These Struts/Inserts

Postby Laecaon » Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:06 am

Techno toy tuning makes the best in my opinion. They have a nice bearing in them.
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Re: Lifting Front End, Trying to Determine what I can do with These Struts/Inserts

Postby noflers » Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:37 am

Laecaon wrote:Techno toy tuning makes the best in my opinion. They have a nice bearing in them.


Anything with a more reasonable price? I'd love to spend 10,000 on the suspension, but it might ruin me. haha.
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Re: Lifting Front End, Trying to Determine what I can do with These Struts/Inserts

Postby noflers » Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:24 pm

Can anyone tell me what diameter camber plate will be goo? I just ordered some plates that are 4.5" in diameter and am worried they aren't big enough!!!!

Edit, it was the 6" that I ordered. Had myself all worried there.
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Re: Lifting Front End, Trying to Determine what I can do with These Struts/Inserts

Postby flatcat19 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:30 pm

Electrical problems? Welcome to Datsun.
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Re: Lifting Front End, Trying to Determine what I can do with These Struts/Inserts

Postby Laecaon » Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:44 pm

Techno sells some $20 top hats.

I dont know where else to get some, other than me making them...

Do you weld? If so you could make some lower perches pretty easily. And height adjustment could be done on the car too. Actually that would be cake for me to make aswell...
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Re: Lifting Front End, Trying to Determine what I can do with These Struts/Inserts

Postby noflers » Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:18 pm

Laecaon wrote:Techno sells some $20 top hats.

I dont know where else to get some, other than me making them...

Do you weld? If so you could make some lower perches pretty easily. And height adjustment could be done on the car too. Actually that would be cake for me to make aswell...


It was the camber plate price I can't handle...

The perches are already welded on the strut casing, it's the rest that I need :)

Today I called Techno Toys up and ordered some parts. I got the threaded sleeves, collars, and the top hats with needle bearings.

Now I just need that trunk lid and I'll be on a roll!!!

I suppose I'll need some nuts to put everything together... Am I forgetting anything? I still need some bump stops, I only have one spare and it's looking a little rough.
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Re: Lifting Front End, Trying to Determine what I can do with These Struts/Inserts

Postby Laecaon » Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:58 pm

You dont need bump stops. I never ran them, and had my car decently low on factory 510 springs (86lb).

Ok, threaded sleeves sit on your welded perch (Orings go inside to take up wiggle). Collars thread onto sleeve, spring goes on. Top hat goes on. Then camber plate. This is where you may or may not run into an issue depending on what Techno provides or your camber plates provide.

If you look at the needle bearing top hat, it is nearly flat on top. If you look at the camber plates you bought, the pillow ball inside is a tad recessed. You need the top hat to not hit the camber plate, just pivot with the pillow ball. There should be a sleeve that fits into the pillow ball on the bottom, and has just enough of a shoulder to space the top hat down.

When do you work? I get off of work in Newberg at 4:30pm.

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